Comments on Mature Landscaping: Into The Fog

Hi Nance, Going down your blog, extremely long po...

2010-03-28T10:39:26.775-04:00

Hi Nance,

Going down your blog, extremely long posts but worthwhile reading, I read this one where you mentioned again Afghanistan.

First, let me tell you, the US is not the only country involved. Most NATO countries are there "protecting liberty at the Hindukush"

I have been there twice as a tourist before the Soviet invasion and wrote a non-tourist post about it here

http://washingwithoutgettingwet-georg.blogspot.com/2008/02/afghanistan-what-are-we-doing-there.html

The "war" down there is not winnable. First our soldiers don't fight, they just try to stay alive (each dead soldier causes a stir in the media). So they exchange fire behind sand bags or cross the country as fast as the potholes allow. Then they talk to the villagers, sip some tea and try to be social. Now the latest find in strategy seems to be to buy the enemy. A wad of dough to this or that tribal chief or clansman to make him stay put. Motto: it worked so well in Irak, why not here?

My idea: let's bail out, cut our losses and send the secret service in. This is a typical job for these people.

Georg

I had not realized it before, but after attending ...

2010-03-15T09:18:57.584-04:00

I had not realized it before, but after attending a lecture at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Naples, Florida,I now see that thinking of the Taliban in terms of a single, homogeneous lump is a a mistake. The fanatics who figured early on in news reports (and that shaped my thinking) turn out to represent a fairly small number. Other Taliban types are not rigidly committed to religious fanaticism. As a matter of self-interest they simply align themselves with the power broker du jour. The lecturer (Jim Kenney, a polymath in the UU tradition) did not argue in favor of the U.S. military leaving altogether, but thought our presence could and should be greatly reduced.

I have NOT read Greg Mortenson, but I have co-read...

2010-03-13T15:12:35.655-05:00

I have NOT read Greg Mortenson, but I have co-read him. Co-reading is what I call it when my DH is reading something he loves so much, he shares passages, impressions, and reviews until I feel I've read it myself. It awaits me as soon as I return to the Right Coast. Thanks for the recommendation!

Since you're always 3 steps ahead of me, I'...

2010-03-13T11:14:28.844-05:00

Since you're always 3 steps ahead of me, I'll assume you've read Three Cups of Tea. If you haven't, you must. There is hope in the world.

You're right, Jack; it comes down to how much ...

2010-03-09T22:47:59.902-05:00

You're right, Jack; it comes down to how much distrust I can stand, how closely I can bear to watch, and still carry on in tough times. I function in waves...periods of greater trust in leadership and periods of less; periods of more questioning and study of national and international issues and periods of focus on matters closer to home, like voting with my fork or meditating regularly; periods where I retreat into distractions and all the denial I can lay hands on and periods of attempts at a reality check.

Mine is a limited amount of courage that dwindles with age, which is why I now try to limit drinking from the information fire hydrant. Thanks for closing the circle on this post.

OK, on thin ice here, particularly since my own po...

2010-03-09T21:39:11.729-05:00

OK, on thin ice here, particularly since my own post fed the flames. But I am not as opposed to the war in Afghanistan as I was to the war in Iraq. Perhaps it's ideological blinders (my guy is now the POTUS), or maybe it's more than that.

The war in Iraq should never have happened. End of commentary on that.

The war in Afghanistan had more 'honest' roots (see Ken/Bucko's comment). But I agree that that's not enough. However, hellish though their job is (and INFINITELY more difficult than the job in Iraq), the U.S troops in Afghanistan MAY well make the world a safer place. Because the 21st century is a world in which bioterror and dirty bombs and jet planes and vulnerable targets like nuke plants and LPG terminals exist. And those are potent weapons and large targets for small groups of zealots; crazies which will always exist under one flag or another, or one faith or another. And in a world where an individual can travel the globe in a day, such nests of individuals must not be allowed to flourish, just as weeds must be addressed in the garden when small and vulnerable. So, failed states such as Afghanistan or Somalia are a problem. For everyone. By definition, they are unsupervised and thus uncontrolled.

So, Obama is rolling the dice with very long odds. Costing precious lives as a result. But if Afghanistan and the tribal areas of Pakistan can be modestly returned to the rule of law, it may indeed make the world a safer place.

Am I 100% on board? Absolutely not.

But I need to trust again. And he and his team are the best option I've had since.....

Ah Nance, sometimes the only thing to do is to tak...

2010-03-09T01:09:19.351-05:00

Ah Nance, sometimes the only thing to do is to take a break from thinking. As my Aunt Dorothy warns, "Too much thinking will make your head explode." I have no idea where she has witnessed this exploding head phenomena. Hobbes proposes that we ae in a constant state of war and what we mistake as peace is simply the absence of war, but it is not really peace, just a respite until the fighting resumes. All the ugly bits add up and wash over us in waves sometimes. I think that John Donne summed it up, "The death of any man diminishes me." I would not give up the ability to feel and I sense that you would not do so either, but there is a price to pay for fully being a part of all humankind. Be well, my friend.

Yes...There are "just" wars and then the...

2010-03-08T19:11:39.769-05:00

Yes...There are "just" wars and then there are wars of rationalization.
Our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan is much like our involvement in Vietnam.
thanks for inviting my comment
A combat Marine veteran.

Thanks, Ken; you're right about the official g...

2010-03-08T17:05:15.538-05:00

Thanks, Ken; you're right about the official goals. Freeing women from oppression and educating girls is hard to argue with, too, until I remember reading that illiteracy in Afghanistan is the norm for both sexes.

And then I read (Time Mag)of the experience of the troops as they try to train the Afghans toward our sensibilities: "..training Afghan police officers. Almost all the recruits were illiterate. 'They've had no experience at learning. You sit them in a room and try to teach them about police procedures — they start gabbing and knocking about. You talk to them about the rights of women, and they just laugh.'"

And I read in today's NYTimes that Karzai made a visit to Marja to speak with the newly "liberated" residents. "But residents made it painfully clear that his government was despised here for the corrupt, violent officials who preyed on Marja for much of the past decade before the Taliban arrived. In fact, residents say, the depredations of government officials here largely explain why the Taliban and their more effective administration of power and justice became so dominant in Marja in the first place."

I read these things and realize that it will take another decade in Afghanistan to realize our initial stated goals and the ones we've tacked on...subsequently and secondarily. And I think about that controversial July, 2011, troop withdrawal issue. I think about the DoD expenditures that threaten to bankrupt us. And the Deficit Reduction Commission, which is about to create a war on Medicare and Social Security. I think about all this and the fog thickens.

I can't send you sunshine, Nance, since your g...

2010-03-08T16:57:48.396-05:00

I can't send you sunshine, Nance, since your gloom is glomming over my way, too. We're all a little SAD here where we come to rely on the skies to brighten and lighten our load. And Afghanistan and murdered children and UC students in a military town embroiled in an ugly imbroglio.... sounds like a massage and a nap are called for.

Clarity is a fleeting blue sky in the eye of the storm; I'm grateful when I find it and am trying to be un-surprised when I don't. It seems that the older I get, the less I seem to really know.
a/b

The initial attack was to eliminate the Al Quada t...

2010-03-08T11:14:18.695-05:00

The initial attack was to eliminate the Al Quada training camps, with a secondary and subsequent mission to prevent the Taliban from taking over the country. The first endeavor is to combat terror, the second mission is to allow women freedom to work, to go to school, and to not be subjegated.

Sorry you're feeling quite blue. The news sta...

2010-03-08T10:22:56.488-05:00

Sorry you're feeling quite blue. The news startles me every morning. When will we protect our women and girls from these sick individuals. We need stronger laws. I was terribly upset by the young woman who was held a prisoner for 28 years. If this were happening to men would the laws and punishment change...probably.

Nance this is quite the post...I have to say since...

2010-03-08T02:13:51.471-05:00

Nance this is quite the post...I have to say since moving, I dont pay attn to regional events in the area. Heck I hardly know who the president is but i can tell you who ate what kind of nut butter on what kind of oats this morning in utah. Anyway, Amber. Some homeschooling friends knew her. And I know many who personally searched for her a year ago. And the parks in No. County were frequented many a time by Skylar and I and our homeschooling posse. Life is precious and short. Dear lord this was a post. Have a peaceful night Nance. It's miserably cold, rainy, windy, dreary and awful here too.

(1) UCSD: A group of dumb white frat guys hold an ...

2010-03-07T23:36:39.023-05:00

(1) UCSD: A group of dumb white frat guys hold an event called a “Compton Cookout.” This pisses people off as it used Black History Month as a reason to mock black people with racist stereotypes. Also involved is some idiot who tries to use this opportunity for shameless self-promotion, who also happens to be black. To say the least, the guy is basically a wannabe Flavor Flav.

(2) UCSD: Another dumb white frat guy gets mad that blacks are offended of being relegated to a bigoted stereotype. He tries to hold another racist event.

(3) UCSD: Meanwhile, a terrible student media publication (which, after viewing their website consists of all white staff, nudity, staff wrestling each other, and well, not much else), pushes their limits calling black students “ungrateful n—-” – not just that word, but also that apparently the black students owed them something. They have a reputation of being trashy, and at this point, administration and faculty rush to condemn racism by students of the campus and various protests begin. Funding is also cut from all student media at UCSD, creating an extra bitter controversy.

(4) UCSD: On Friday of that week, a noose is found in the library. Everything gets worked in a frenzy and – something I’ll address later – a large amount of white commenter’s on the internet begin claiming that is was probably a black student who planted it in order to gain more sympathy. In addition, there are rumors of a threatening note sent to the Guardian and a second noose, there was no second noose, and the threat seems to be just a rumor.

(5) UCSD: Protests basically happen at all schools in support of the students. There are various sit-ins, and teach-ins, and what have you. School administrators become pushed to be more active in fixing what’s going on.

I have not seen this noose person, but most of you blame her and conveniently forget wear this all originated.

Instead of an apology there has been steady escalation and now the noose. So, what exactly will the excuses be for this cowardly act that brings up memories of the confederate KKK of the South in their attempts to keep slavery and the non-whites in fear? Is it that are uneducated, is it that their parents planted these seeds of hate, is it that they are live in fear because our President in the white house is not 100% white. In my opinion this is what the small portions of the republican party of “birthers, baggers and blowhards” have brought you. These kids are good at “Follow the Leader” of their dullard leaders, they listen to Beck, Hedgecock, Hannity, O’Reilly, Rush and Savage and the rest of the Blowhards, they are young and dumb. Are you surprise at what they do when you know what they think? The world is complicated and most republicans (Hamiliton, Lincoln, Roosevelt) believe that we should use government a little to increase social mobility, now its about dancing around the claim of government is the problem. The sainted Reagan passed the biggest tax increase in American history and as a result federal employment increased, but facts are lost when mired in mysticism and superstition. Although most republicans are trying to distant themselves from this fringe they have a long way to go.